Attitudes to "foreigners"

This thread is basically branching off the thread "war in iraq/afhan". It might become a little heated but I believe that it needs to address certain attitudes and beliefs that some people have.

One thing that needs to be addressed is the confusion between "race", "beliefs" and "nationalism". They are not the same. To think that everyone in an entire country are fundamentalist and suicide bombers, worthy of all of them to be wiped out shows an incredible amount of ignorance.

There is also confusion with what is English (a nationality) with a "white" person. If you are born in this country (England) you are English. A nationality is what is defined by national borders, which are defined by governments. Think back to the time before governments defined these borders and there weren't any English, French, Iraqs, there were just people.

Once these nationalities were established, there was segregation due to people just living within these borders and having border controls. These formed beliefs and customs. Hence the "differences" between us and "them".

These differences a lot of nationalists cannot accept, because they are worried that their customs will be destroyed. Customs which aren't worth keeping. How do we know these "differences"? We think we know them from skin colour. Just because fundamental extremists have brown skin, nationalists end up believing all people with brown skin are fundamental extremists and get attacked. Iraq is full of people with brown skin, so lets nuke all of them.

This is another reason you are one of my best friends Lau!

Glad you posted this because I had considered adding something similar with each definition on the other thread. Good work! :hug:

Sorry this was a reply in the Iraq war thread but wanted to address it

Quote :

^^thats my point right there we are so overrun with with other peoples people you have to ask that

I actually asked the question to see how you were quantifying your statement.. and personally I find that remark highly offensive. What gives us a right to say who can and can't class themselves as English? Do you have to to trace your lineage back to the Anglo-Saxons? If so hardly any of us who live on this fair isle will be able to claim ourselves English.. we are all mongrels, a mix of many races that have invaded us throughout our history, a history where we raped and pillaged other continents just as we were raped and pillaged in return.

Also what gives us to stake a claim to the land and say this belongs to us? Surely people have the right to chose to live where they please as long as they abide by the laws and repsect the culture of the place they chose to call home. Annually, as many "English" people chose to leave this country and reside in others of their choice as do enter it from other nations. Personally I believe the diversity of race and culture is a positive thing, it opens our minds and brings in new ideas, cuisine, lifestyles and adds colour to society.

As for who can call themselves English.. well anyone born in this country, or married to an English person who resides here regardless of skin colour or origin. In the last century we invited members of other countries to come live in the UK as we needed the workforce during the major wars. Workers from the Carribean among other places were asked to come over and build a new life with a promise of their families joining them. As soon as the war was over and they were no longer needed the promise was broken and the offer to ship over their families was rescinded. Leaving them with no way of gettting home and without their loved ones. They faced racism and hatred and were accused of stealing"our" jobs. Many worked in low paid jobs, saved up and some went home, some brought their families over eventually and some started new lives and married here. To me this gives them and their descendent generations every right to call themselves English.

When Idi Amin kicked the Asian population out of Uganda we invited them with open arms because they were well educated and mostly doctors, lawyers, teachers and business people - skills we needed in this country. Many already had Uk passports - I think around 30,000 out of 80,000 came here. I'd say these peole also have the right to call themselves "English" I'm sure there are many more examples that could be mentioned but this is already turning into an essay.

I really don't understand this "them" and "us" mindset, there is one race of people on this planet and that is humans. Why do we set ourselves up and better then others just because they live in a different place or have different cluture and beliefs. Instead of living in fear of people's differences we should educate ourselves and experience as much as possible. That way you can chose the lifestyle and cultural beliefs that best suit you instead of limiting yourself to those you are used to. Who to say our way is the right way? Nationality is just a label, one that seems to limit reasonable thought at times. It's just geography, just like skin colour is just genetics. Stereotyping based on race, skin colour just makes you look ignorant and hatred is a waste of time and energy.

Nat don't want to fall out with you but I really don't care if you find it offensive every ones entitled to there opinion & thats mine live with it

not gonna fall out with you because I don't agree with you, that's what discussion is about, we may never agree but at least conceed there is a debate to be had here

was unclewar on what your view was actually G, a few more details may help?

Would you be able to live with the condoning of killing millions of innocent people?

well it's a fact that the middle east hates the west & with Iran & there nuke program I can see it won't belong before one gets let off over here or the USA there don't care about our people or anyother people so better them than us

so when the IRA were bombing London - did you think all Irish people were terrorists and therefore should be nuked?

The Middle East are several countries (and it isn't true that all of them hate the west). The people who you mean who hate the British and Americans are extremist groups like Al Qaeda, whom are based all over the world. They are very much in the minority. You are suggesting wiping out a number of nations for the sake of a tiny percentage of the world population.

the way I see it these countries are know like Iran for being sympathetic to the extremist groups like Al Qaeda like I said better them than us



(AND YES I AM TAKING THE PISS WITH THAT PIC)

that's like saying all English people love Cricket..

and what do you think will happen if we nuke them? We'd better take em all out before they nuke us back

to quote REM it would be the end of the world as we know it

Nuclear weapons can only be a deterrent or we all die

God im sorry i started that thread now, wasnt meant to cause this row, im sorry.

I blame the government for the state of this country not the people who are coming in.

ellie wrote:

God im sorry i started that thread now, wasnt meant to cause this row, im sorry.

I blame the government for the state of this country not the people who are coming in.

Don't be sorry. If nothing else it can bring up some good points and hopefully we can all see different points of view in addition to possibly changing our own beliefs about the situation.
Sometimes people get stuck in a belief that is negative, and by discussing it may be able to open their eyes. At least I hope so.

I used to have G's opinion until i sat down and really thought about it, and living in cardiff is like living in immagrant central, but also working in a school and meeting and seeing the children of these people you realise that some of them are just trying to get a better life, and if our government is going to let everyone in then its their fault!!! But on the other hand the bastard who stole my purse one night in cardiff does not deserve a passport, its taking from the hand that feeds him!!! xxxxxx

Nat wrote:

Also what gives us to stake a claim to the land and say this belongs to us?

Exactly...no one really has that right.

Traveller sat by a tree in a field when he is approached by the land owner.

Land owner: "I'm sorry you are going to have to move along, this is private land"

Traveller: "Well who owns it then"?

Land owner: "I do"

Traveller: "and who did you get it from"?

Land owner: "My father"

Traveller: "And who did he get it from"?

Land owner:"His father"

Traveller: "And who did he get it from"?

Land ownwer: "He fought for it"

The traveller stand to his feet and says "OK...I'll fight you for it"










I shouldnt need a passport to walk upon this earth...I was made of this earth, I was born of this earth and I shall walk upon this earth.

It is nice to see that the people who actually brought about the release of the teacher imprisoned in the Sudan, were not only British Citizens, but British MUSLIMS! Both peers in the house of Lords.

i hope that maybe it did a lot of good to bringing ethnic minorities and the hard line 'British' people closer together

It is also interesting that other Brits staying over there have mentioned that it is in direct contrast to the minority of people who wanted her shot etc. Saying that the Sudanese they have met have been very friendly and hospitable.

Just goes to show that it really is just a minority that are causing the problems (and these people are the ones that shout the most), and not representative of an entire culture or race of people.